Follow-up Fridays

I've been MIA for the last couple of days. I've been pondering life's great questions. And napping.

But now I am BIA, and it is time for this week's installment of Follow up Fridays. This week's comment comes from my white friend Cathy. Cathy left a few comments (which is awesome,) We're going to highlight two.

These two came from this week's installment of Music Mondays.

Anyway, I think the Jackson reference says it's not just about race... It's about class too. Not very post-colonial... Or maybe it is. Though I suspect Jackson would agree with that, so maybe not!

And then later...

Ok, now I've had a chance to listen to this week's song (and a bit of the one you wanted to compare it to.)

Here's my question back to you. (Aren't the best questions answered with more questions?) I feel like you've got this unspoken agenda lingering. The question I sense just by the choice of songs and some of your comments is this. "What makes life so terrible for these people (the characters in the songs--whoever that is)? Who are we to blame for this injustice?"

I feel like you're looking for a label to put on it (thus my post earlier about what I think the Jackson reference was about). I guess I see it as a bit of everything--race, gender, class. All the biggies that get their own discipline. My question, though, is does it matter what we call it? MUST we call it something other than a vicious cycle? Must we label it to find solutions? Does this create more problems and conflicting agendas?

I guess the other unspoken question I sense is "what's the way out?" To that I have no answer. The teacher in me says education, but the realist in me knows that in America not everybody has a chance to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and it's so much more complicated than such a simplistic idea.

I grew up with a lot of kids who live/d lives similar to the characters in those songs, and I've often wondered what made us take such different paths? Why was Angel pregnant at 13 while I ended up with an MA and full scholarships to my schools of choice? I think the biggest thing was my parents, and I don't know how to teach people to be good parents. Well, I have some ideas, but nothing foolproof :)

I've just discovered your blog, and it has reminded me of being back in all those fun humanities classes I loved so much in college--just shooting the shit about stuff that matters in the world. I'll be coming back for more! You sometimes irritate me on ****** b/c I see you out there playing devil's advocate so much and I just want to know what you REALLY think, so this has been an interesting insight into your brain.

So tell me if the unspoken questions were really hanging there or if I just projected onto you with what I've been thinking about ...

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Anyway, I think the Jackson reference says it's not just about race... It's about class too. Not very post-colonial... Or maybe it is. Though I suspect Jackson would agree with that, so maybe not!

Hmm...When I heard that line, I thought that The Game was referring to the comment that Jesse Jackson made about Barack Obama talking down to black people. That comment pissed a lot of people off. So maybe it was a response to that. I have two (no, three) alternative options in my head

1) "I (The Game) have found that my life is significantly better now that I have a lot more money. I was born a poor black child in the projects, but I worked hard, had a talent, met the right people, and now I'm rich--what does it all mean?"

2) [This is still The Game talking] "Shut up, Jesse Jackson! Can't you see we're on the verge of electing a black president?!! I don't appreciate you talking sh*t about him. Clearly if we can put a black man in The Oval Office, that means we're making real strides on the issue of race. Keep your vulgar opinions to yourself."

3.) Something else I haven't thought of.

I feel like you've got this unspoken agenda lingering.

Ooh, sounds subversive. Tell me more...

The question I sense just by the choice of songs and some of your comments is this. "What makes life so terrible for these people (the characters in the songs--whoever that is)? Who are we to blame for this injustice?"

Interesting. The reason that I do Music Mondays is because I like music. My only real agenda is to get people thinking about what they've heard. Music is like art, it affects people in different ways. Ideally, I want people to share about how the music affects them, but I can tell that some of the songs like this one, or this one affect people in ways that they're not that comfortable sharing about. Which is fine--- everything in due time, right?

I feel like you're looking for a label to put on it

Well, I don't think that you can solve a problem without first defining it.

I guess I see it as a bit of everything--race, gender, class. All the biggies that get their own discipline.

I think it's probably all of these too. But I think it's interesting that classism actually doesn't get its own discipline. At least that I know of. Like, most major universities don't have a "class studies" major. I was an undergrad in Sociology and we only had one course on class, "Social Stratification". It seems like such a huge part of what is going on (just ask The Game,) but a very small part of what we actually spend our time talking about.

My question, though, is does it matter what we call it? MUST we call it something other than a vicious cycle? Must we label it to find solutions? Does this create more problems and conflicting agendas?

I don't know. Vicious cycle might work. I think we have to determine first if the cycle is in fact "vicious." That's one of my big fears. Thinking that I automatically know that it must suck to be poor (because I think it would,) and if only everyone were middle class they'd be sooo happy. I'm really wary of coming across as this person who's out to "save the poor people." That's why this blog is about models in jcrew catalogs, and getting upset at episodes of The Daily Show, and getting bad service at Ruth Chris --because that's what I know, that's how these issues affect my life.

I have ideas of how The Game and others might solve problems, but I think it would be much more important to get his ideas first about what the solutions should be, because he understands the problems a lot better than I do.


I guess the other unspoken question I sense is "what's the way out?" To that I have no answer. The teacher in me says education, but the realist in me knows that in America not everybody has a chance to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and it's so much more complicated than such a simplistic idea.

I think education is important also. I think it would be helpful if people could be guaranteed they were going to receive a very good education, regardless of the neighborhood they lived in.


I grew up with a lot of kids who live/d lives similar to the characters in those songs, and I've often wondered what made us take such different paths? Why was Angel pregnant at 13 while I ended up with an MA and full scholarships to my schools of choice? I think the biggest thing was my parents, and I don't know how to teach people to be good parents. Well, I have some ideas, but nothing foolproof :)

I think parents are important too. Maybe it's all important. Maybe none of it's important. I've been thinking a lot about parents recently, and how things would be so much better if some parents would just get their acts together. But then that always leads to visions of A Handmaid's Tale running through my head.

I've just discovered your blog

cool, make sure you tell all your friends about it (:

it has reminded me of being back in all those fun humanities classes I loved so much in college--just shooting the shit about stuff that matters in the world.

Isn't it funny? Some people think science is what really matters, some people think philosophy is what really matters, some people think machines are what really matter, and some people think all the social stuff is what really matters. I wonder if we're born that way? I'm also thinking if there wasn't someone to think that everything in life is what really mattered, our universe would be a lot more boring.

You sometimes irritate me on **** b/c I see you out there playing devil's advocate so much and I just want to know what you REALLY think

She's talking about a message board in that **** part. I'm still trying to figure out my whole public/private blog persona thing.

Cathy, I guess what I'd say here is that I bet a lot of the time you think I'm playing devil's advocate, that's not really what I'm doing. I don't think there's anything that I've written on the unnamed message board, that I don't actually believe (unless I'm utilizing the wonderful tool that is sarcasm). I'd like to think that my views are nuanced, which means they might seem contradictory at times. But I think I'd have to know more specifically what you're referring to.

So tell me if the unspoken questions were really hanging there or if I just projected onto you with what I've been thinking about

I think the questions that you posed are questions that were brought up for you as part of your unique experience, and not part of my "unspoken agenda." I'd like to think that if nothing else, my agenda has stayed pretty consistently spoken throughout this blog (:

They were very good questions, and I enjoyed thinking about them. I think that they brought up some worthwhile things for us all to ponder, and I really appreciate you taking the time to write them down.


So keep the comments coming, everyone. I'll see you all on Monday.